"You had a real job, and then you had a firefighting job."
In the early days when I was working, all of us were firefighters. That was just part of your job, you had a job, you had a real job, and then you had a firefighting job. And so I began both careers at Dolores, and began working up in the fire career side as a sector boss and division boss and at that time line boss, and those kinds of things; and also in my other career, moving from Dolores, Colorado, to Minturn, Colorado, near Vail, Colorado, on the White River Forest. And then to the Shoshone National Forest in Wyoming. I was district ranger in Lander, Wyoming, for seven years and worked, again, in fire: district ranger for almost all my duties, but then when a fire was going on somewhere, I would go and work on that fire.